Talk:Homeland
Do male and female channelers still have different stat maxes or at least total point caps? If this is no longer the case it should be noted, as it was the situation for decades. TheGiantPotato (talk) 08:31, February 10, 2014 (UTC) *Please see the following post from 2006: http://www.wotmud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66 by Myrddin, indicating the female malus was removed. In addition, all testing to date confirms this. I thought I had noted this, but will do so. Thanks for noticing.Russ3Z (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC) **Also, some note of the stat malus removal was made on the Sex page, though I will still note it here.Russ3Z (talk) 14:29, February 10, 2014 (UTC) ***Thanks for the prompt attention. An impressive amount of community work has gone into this wiki.TheGiantPotato (talk) 02:46, February 11, 2014 (UTC) On another note, I'm adding point sum max and point sum average columns to the chart. While 19 13 11 19 19 represent individual stat maxes for a Wolfish trolloc, a point sum of 81 does not seem possible. Across 60 samples the highest sum was 72, and the average was 67 -- quite a bit different from 81.TheGiantPotato (talk) 02:46, February 11, 2014 (UTC) *Testing has actually shown there is no such thing as a stat max for any class/race/homeland combination. Your sample size is quite small for that. We've done analysis on tens of thousands of stats now, and many characters have statsums far higher than that. For further information, reference the following topic - http://www.wotmud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=61243 ... I also have some older, deleted posts saved that go into this a bit more, including some statting mechanics models. I'll get around to posting some of that to the wotmudarchives.org site when I get a chance. **Good to know. We hadn't collected enough data back when we were first trying to pin down how stats worked when I was last doing this in 2000 (statting was considerably more involved back then). Do you have enough stats collected since the changes to statting mechanics to generate an average point sum? What I'm looking for is a way for returners and newcomers to backstop their statting expectations.TheGiantPotato (talk) 20:59, February 11, 2014 (UTC) ***Averages vary depending on class/homeland combination. For instance Illian channelers tend to sum about 1 point higher than say Borderlands, even though Borderlands channelers can get a higher possible statsum (85 vs 89). I'll see if I can get some data to you in the next few days. I've also got an Excel sheet I made that can model statting fairly accurately based on some research I did. I'll fish up an archived version of the original post and link the sheet when I get a chance. Russ3Z (talk) 21:25, February 11, 2014 (UTC) Homeland Stat Modifiers Using the class stat modifiers table and when examining Two Rivers I come up with the following modifiers: STR:0 INT:-3 WIL:-1 DEX:-2 CON:0 Is this accurate? Do we want a table at the end of the maxes to show these values for each homeland if this is an accurate way to show homeland contribution to the statting process? Medakan (talk) 23:57, November 28, 2016 (UTC) :That's one way to look at it, I suppose. Bear in mind the Class modifiers are only known relative to each other. I arbitrarily chose the Hunter class to be "0" in all stats and compared the other classes to it. It looks like you're doing the same thing, relative to a 19 max stat? Russ3Z (talk) 00:45, November 29, 2016 (UTC) ::Yeah, I think... just took the table of data and tried to apply it to homelands like it was to classes. Think this is a good way to show it? Or does it not really matter and just showing the maxes is what is important? I just saw that table in the classes page for the first time and wondered if it applied to homeland in a similar fashion. Medakan (talk) 01:33, November 29, 2016 (UTC) :::I'm not sure what's best. Yes, we certainly can show the constant modifiers for Homelands, but the far more important factor is the xdy portion. Two homelands might have the exact same mins and maxes, but if one is based on a 2d5+z versus an 8d2+z, the distribution will be substantially different. Also, as you can see in such a case, the z values would also be very different for the two homelands. :::As it is set up now, the table says nothing about distributions, nor does it show the effects of some homelands rolling lower than 9 or higher than 19. It's honestly pretty crude, but it's simple. I think for now, getting the actual observable min/maxes for each class/homeland is the best first goal. Once that info is verified, it could be worthwhile to analyze enough stats for each homeland to get the actual mechanics...though be warned this may require many thousands for each. Russ3Z (talk) 01:43, November 29, 2016 (UTC) Boarheaded Warrior Feel free to move this if you want it somewhere else like sorted by race versus homeland. Jendav (talk) 16:36, February 5, 2017 (UTC) :Brings up a good question I think. I was just posting records here to verify changes to the homeland stats page. I wonder if we should keep all this some where else or if this is a good spot for them. Medakan (talk) 03:58, February 6, 2017 (UTC) ::You both have me wondering about this on two points. First, in the past we had considered making separate pages for each Homeland, but rejected it since the only real information would be about statting, which it was felt the table covered well enough. That may still be the case to some extent, but it might at least be worthwhile to make subpages, perhaps, to store raw data such as this. So we would have a page "Homeland/Boarheaded", for instance, and so on for all the homelands. We could then naturally link to those subpages from the main Homeland page. ::Secondly, in a broader sense it might be nice to use this wiki itself as a stat database. I don't know how technically feasible this is, though I know it is apparently possible to add input forms. Not sure how well mud clients would do with scripts to access and automatically upload info to it, but it may be something to consider in the future. ::Note, ideally I would have full pages for each homeland that gave accurate mechanics of their rolls, a statistical breakdown, and general guides. Given enough data that can potentially be done. I made a start with the Borderlands homelands a few years back with a model that seemed pretty good, but anomalies found with other homelands made me question some assumptions there. Russ3Z (talk) 14:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC) :::I miss the old stat database as I used to love pulling the data into an Excel pivot table so then when I got stats I was considering keeping, I could get a feel for probabilities and how many stats I might have to do to get better. So for me, the preferred functionality would be to have a page where one can select the minimums they want in each stat and then get a forecast for each homeland of the how many stats it may take to achieve that (along with an indicator of max statsum per homeland as future planning for rerolls is a factor as well). That's probably way beyond the functionality you're thinking of though. :) I don't know much about the capabilities of this wiki or web dev but I'll certainly let you know, however, once I get to taking a course on it through my degree. Jendav (talk) 14:55, February 7, 2017 (UTC) Tear Hunter Is 104 stats enough to guess Tear hunter maxes? STR:19 INT:18 WIL:18 DEX:16 CON:18 Medakan (talk) 23:38, November 29, 2016 (UTC) Did some more until I got 17 DEX STR:19 INT:18 WIL:18 DEX:17 CON:18 Medakan (talk) 03:01, November 30, 2016 (UTC) Tear Rogue Stats Don't fit the defined class modifiers as shown by my recent hunter tests. Medakan (talk) 03:10, November 30, 2016 (UTC) :Those Tear rogue stats were preliminary and not complete, so it is highly likely they are not correct. I haven't tested that homeland myself. Looks like we really need some good, robust testing. Russ3Z (talk) 03:25, November 30, 2016 (UTC) Seandar Warrior Stats Used the following stats to verify the maxes. Medakan (talk) 22:11, February 2, 2017 (UTC) Seandar Hunter Stats Following stats verify current maxes. Medakan (talk) 00:05, February 3, 2017 (UTC) Seandar Rogue Stats Following stats verify current maxes. Medakan (talk) 05:57, February 3, 2017 (UTC) Tzura Warrior Stats Used following stats to set maxes. Medakan (talk) 23:11, February 9, 2017 (UTC) Rampore Warrior Stats Used following stats to set maxes. May not be big enough of a sample size though. Medakan (talk) 21:16, February 10, 2017 (UTC) Shon Kifar Warrior Stats Used following stats to set maxes. Medakan (talk) 22:46, February 10, 2017 (UTC) Noren M'Shar Warrior Stats Used following stats to set maxes. May not be big enough of a sample size though. Medakan (talk) 23:59, February 10, 2017 (UTC) Kirendad Warrior Stats Used following stats to set maxes. May not be big enough of a sample size though. Medakan (talk) 00:54, February 12, 2017 (UTC) Tear Channeler Stats Used following stats to set maxes. Tzura Hunter Stats Used following stats to set maxes. Medakan (talk) 04:03, September 24, 2017 (UTC)